Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Should the voting age be lowered to 16?
Invision Power Services > Community Forums > Community General Chat
Pages: 1, 2
Stephen
Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/vot...age/4511267.stm
QUOTE
Campaigners have demanded a pre-election pledge from the three main parties to lower the voting age to 16 by the next general election.

The coalition, including the National Union of Students and the Electoral Reform Society, said it would "invigorate" the youth vote.

Campaigner Joseph Ammoun, 16, said: "Young people know what they think about issues."

The Liberal Democrats have already pledged to reduce the voting age to 16.

Pay taxes

Last year, following a 12-month review, the Electoral Commission rejected the idea of lowering the voting age.

Both the Labour and Conservative parties followed the commission's lead by ruling out a change.

The UK's 1.5m 16 and 17-year-olds would become further alienated from the democratic process if they continued to be excluded from voting, claimed the Votes at 16 coalition.

The group said that if people at 16 were able to leave home, get a full-time job, pay taxes, raise children and join the armed forces they should also be able to vote.

Lowering the voting age could also help to reinvigorate the youth vote by forcing MPs to take an active interest in the issues that concern young people, they said.

The group - which also includes the Children's Rights Alliance for England, British Youth Council and Children's Parliament in Scotland - have written to the party leaders, asking them to promise to extend the franchise.

The letter urged them to "demonstrate their faith in and respect for younger citizens by working to ensure that 16 and 17 year-olds are no longer unnecessarily denied a stake in their democracy".

Louise King, of the Children's Rights Alliance, said: "At 16 and 17, young people's lives are as rich and varied as at any other age.

Citizenship education

"They have considerable responsibilities and routinely make complex decisions but adult society does not consider them responsible enough to vote.

"This is both illogical and unjust."

Matthew Green, Liberal Democrat spokesman for young people, said the party would allow voting and standing for office at 16.

"We believe that involving young people earlier in the political process will lead to a lifetime of interest and activism," he said.

In April 2004 the Electoral Commission recommended a further review within five to seven years to give time for more research on the social and political awareness of those at the current minimum voting age of 18.

The commission also said compulsory citizenship education in UK schools would have by then had time to develop.
GameFox
No - most 16 and 17 year olds probably couldn't care less and wouldn't take the time to consider their vote. It's a shame for those who are responsible enough at that age but I agree with the Electoral Commission, the tories and Labour.
Wilko
Most people at that age are not too bothered about the elections. And given the chance to vote, wouldn't. But the same can be said for people at 18, those who understand the elections and have a clear view on who to vote for, tend to vote and those who don't tend to stay clear.

It wouldn't make much of a difference if they were to lower the voting age.
Rikki
I can't see how it can possibly be a bad thing. 16/17 year olds pay taxes. They can smoke. They can have children. They can drive. They can do many of the things that adults do and they have many of the same responsibilities.

If they lowered it and 90% of them didn't use their vote, whats the problem? It's given the 10% that care the chance to place their vote. No-ones losing anything.

As for standing for office at 16 - there's more to disagree with on that.
-Strider-
no.

why?

cos im 16 and i couldnt give a rats ass about that kinda stuff
Rikki
QUOTE(-Strider- @ May 4 2005, 12:31 PM) *
no. why? cos im 16 and i couldnt give a rats ass about that kinda stuff
So why deny other people your age who do give a rats ass the chance to have their say?
-Strider-
QUOTE(Rikki @ May 4 2005, 09:33 PM) *
So why deny other people your age who do give a rats ass the chance to have their say?


well the thing is i dont even know anyone my age who cares about it
Stephen
yet from the article there are clearly people who are interested

QUOTE
Joseph Ammoun, 16, said: "Young people know what they think about issues."


QUOTE
The group - which also includes the Children's Rights Alliance for England, British Youth Council and Children's Parliament in Scotland - have written to the party leaders, asking them to promise to extend the franchise.


wink.gif As Rikki said whats the harm in it? People who aren't interested won't bother and those who are will, simple as that.
-Strider-
hmm, i dunno about the uk, but here (aus) you are required to vote.
lister
I say Yes they should have a right to have a say about the country they live in.

Also if you gave young people the chance to vote they probably would become more interested.
Chris T
I'm undecided. On the one hand I'm unsure whether 16 year olds would be mature enough, but then on the other that's the same argument that was used when the voting age was lowered to 18 from 21, my sister is 17 and would certainly be mature enough to vote IMO, and I think kids mature a lot quicker these days, although that's a trend I find somewhat depressing.
Tseia
QUOTE(-Strider- @ May 4 2005, 12:47 PM) *
hmm, i dunno about the uk, but here (aus) you are required to vote.


Voting is non-compulsory in the UK. We only have 57% of the electorate vote last general election.

This is an interesting point, and I've argued strongly in the past against the reduction of voting age to sixteen - and that as a seventeen year old who had been looking forward to voting since aged fourteen. However, a lot of that was devil's advocate, and also I think there's more important issues.

Like what, for example? Well, educating kids about politics, and doing something about voter apathy. By age 16 (when they can leave home) kids know a lot about sex, quite a lot about taxes (enough, anyway, to pay them) and practically nothing about politics. That needs to change before 16 year olds should be given the vote. The point that they're given the responsibility in other areas still stands, but that's based on them knowing a bit about it. The 16 year olds who know about politics are those who look into it themselves.

As for voter apathy, I almost think compulsory voting would be better than our current system (with proportional representation as part of that) - but allowing people to vote for "none of the above" if they feel none of the parties represent them. Haven't thought about that particularly though. Anyway, this issue is less relevant to letting 16 year olds have the vote. The political education I think would be vital though - so kids have no excuse for voting (for example) for the party whose election poster matches their bedroom colour scheme.

Incidently, my 16 year old brother would love to vote, is just as clued-up as me, but wouldn't lower the voting age himself, as he doesn't think most people his age are ready.
tomek__w
QUOTE(-Strider- @ May 4 2005, 12:31 PM) *
cos im 16 and i couldnt give a rats ass about that kinda stuff

Hmmmmmm!

From what I am seeing within the UK (Yes, I realise that Strider is from Aus) this appears to be a quite popular 'opinion' of the 'younger' generation.

What is more, it would appear that a high percentage of the 18 - 30 age group don't care either. I guess that this is just a sign of the times - it's no wonder this country is going to pot!

It's a shame that the people of this country are not willing to stand up and 'have their say'. We all complain, about all sorts of things, but very few of us are willing to voice our complaints out loud and would rather sit at home in front of the TV and do/say nothing or just moan about things to our family and friends.

It is appalling to think that not much more than 50% of the voting population are likely to vote tomorrow.

So, no matter what happens tomorrow, no matter who is running the country, it will be our own fault!

TTFN
=Charles
QUOTE(Tseia @ May 4 2005, 02:49 PM) *
Like what, for example? Well, educating kids about politics, and doing something about voter apathy. By age 16 (when they can leave home) kids know a lot about sex, quite a lot about taxes (enough, anyway, to pay them) and practically nothing about politics. That needs to change before 16 year olds should be given the vote. The point that they're given the responsibility in other areas still stands, but that's based on them knowing a bit about it. The 16 year olds who know about politics are those who look into it themselves.

I agree with you and share your opinion. I was taught absolutely nothing about politics in School - I'm 19 now. One way people are likely to learn about politics is through their parents, which means they're likely to follow in their parents' footsteps (?)
samuelt
They should be allowed to vote. How can you have a "not mature" arguement? If they cant be bothered or dont care, then they dont vote. If they dont know anything - they dont vote. Just the same as above 18 year olds. Some "adults" vote the Monster Raving Looney Party, some adults vote the same party again and again without even knowing their policies. Want to talk mature? Then tell me where it comes into the equation. Many adults know just as little as 16 year olds. If you pay adult prices at 16, and all the other things Rikki mentioned, then you have a right to vote for the issues that affect you. Plain selfish not too, and very ignorant to assume children would "waste their votes as they are not mature" (i didnt say anyone said that btw). Adults are just as irresponsible.
elj
I'd say lower it. If people aren't bothered, fine, but 16 year olds can do a lot of things - why not vote? If some people don't care, give a chance to those who do.
DXL
No, and I'll say this as a former educator who has worked with 16 year olds.

Your average 16 year old may be able to work a part time job, and pay taxes, but they are still fairly impressionable. At that age they are often still formulating their opinions about a variety of things, but still getting ideas from their parents. I think their judgement will be clouded, that they aren't going to go into the facts about a particular situation.

Case in point, as a teenager I had a discussion with several friends about voting for Clinton vs. the George Bush (the elder bush). One of my best friends said that he would vote for Bush for one reason only; because Clinton "wanted fruits in the military". His father was in the Marine Corps, and would often sit in the living room talking about hating gays and wanting to kill gays who became soldiers. Granted, people in their 20's may still harbor these feelings, but I think its clear that teenagers at 16 are going to focus less on the facts and more on specific issues that wont affect the big picture.
princetontiger
16 year olds don't have a better view of politics than 18 year olds in the US... So people that are 16 should be able to vote. the past points cite critical information.
Chris T
Quick point here: I wonder if anyone knows what the first party in the UK to declare that 18 year olds should be given the vote? The National Teenage Party, which was led by David Edward Sutch AKA Screaming Lord Sutch, the original leader of the Official Monster Raving Loony Party.
Aaron S
No even thought I dont come from the UK and Im 16 I dont think most 16 year olds are responsible enought to make there own indepentid descion on something like this and are more easly to go with the larger group even if it may be the wrong one.
Wilko
QUOTE(Stormrtrooper9 @ May 4 2005, 10:43 PM) *
No even thought I dont come from the UK and Im 16 I dont think most 16 year olds are responsible enought to make there own indepentid descion on something like this and are more easly to go with the larger group even if it may be the wrong one.


I think that can be said for every age group.
Ash
Most sixteen year olds are perfectly capable of researching political parties and forming their own opinions on issues. As has been mentioned before, the people who don't care simply won't vote, and that applies to those of any age, not just teenagers.
James302
I don't think letting 16 year olds vote would be a good idea. During this past election in the States, most of my friends (mind you, I am 16) and I were very passionate in our politcal views. We would have jumped at the chance to vote for our party. The problem with most of my peers was that they were extremely un-informed about either politcal party. Many of them supported Bush because the Democrats wanted "to take guns away" or even "Kerry looks weird" and many supported Kerry because "Bush is a war monger who kills little children." Very few of them took the time to research the actual facts about either party. I did, however, and formed my opinion based on the facts. Not what my other friends thought, and not what my parents thought. I don't trust my friends voting for the president. Why do you think the US has the Electoral College? It was setup because they felt the people could not effectively choose the president directly. Setting a certain age for voting is no different.

Those who are 18 tend to be much more independent. Many are moving away from home for the first time out of high school and going to college. They won't be as easily influenced by their parents or anyone else for that matter. I do realize that there are many 18+ year olds who do vote with biased views, but I think you'll find that number will be significantly higher in the 16-17 year old category. Two years may not seem like much, there is a lot of maturing going on in those two years.
Mark McConner
QUOTE(Rikki @ May 4 2005, 11:19 AM) *
I can't see how it can possibly be a bad thing. 16/17 year olds pay taxes. They can smoke. They can have children. They can drive. They can do many of the things that adults do and they have many of the same responsibilities.

If they lowered it and 90% of them didn't use their vote, whats the problem? It's given the 10% that care the chance to place their vote. No-ones losing anything.

As for standing for office at 16 - there's more to disagree with on that.

wub.gif thumbsup.gif wub.gif
cooldude7273
I think that 16 is too young. And too young to drive, and to smoke, and to drink, and to leave home, and to start families, and to even be given the smallest opertunity to leave school. Were too young and socities are getting older, not younger, and we need to preserve what we have as youth. Because we can't go back to it.

So voting and all this other un-necessary crap that keeps getting lowered needs to stop.

If you want to know what they just lowered here in North Carolina... before it was illegal for anyone under 18 to have any sexual encounters with anyone older than 18. They lowered this to 16. What does that tell me? That my state wants more sex, which is the opposite of what they should and they just want their paychecks.
.Reko
Unfortunately there are two groups of 16-18 year olds:
  • Intelligent, thoughtful people who would vote who they feel would be best for the country, because they have more chance of being uninfluenced by selfishness (tax reasons, etc).
  • Unfortunately, as reality is, there are also careless people that just, well, vote carelessly and without a thought.
For this reason, voting to the 16-18 age group would provide a great opportunity to the first type, but unfortunately drag in the second too. sad.gif
Benneh
In the uk people can join the army at 16 (with parental consent but join nonetheless). If you can die for your country you should be able to vote for your country's leaders.

The arguments about maturity aren't too relevant in my opinion. Plenty of people waste their votes regardless of age, either by not voting or voting without thinking about the issues.

I'm 18 and have voted today, but a good number of my classmates are still 17. They all participated in debates we've had in tutor recently about what the parties believe in and have promised. Why should I be able to vote but not them?

That said I'm more concerned about the different age limits for different responsibilities/rights. They should be set at the same age (or something like the summer when you leave school). Its the grey area between childhood and adulthood that is frustrating
Wilko
QUOTE(James302 @ May 5 2005, 12:04 AM) *
I don't think letting 16 year olds vote would be a good idea. During this past election in the States, most of my friends (mind you, I am 16) and I were very passionate in our politcal views. We would have jumped at the chance to vote for our party. The problem with most of my peers was that they were extremely un-informed about either politcal party. Many of them supported Bush because the Democrats wanted "to take guns away" or even "Kerry looks weird" and many supported Kerry because "Bush is a war monger who kills little children." Very few of them took the time to research the actual facts about either party. I did, however, and formed my opinion based on the facts. Not what my other friends thought, and not what my parents thought. I don't trust my friends voting for the president. Why do you think the US has the Electoral College? It was setup because they felt the people could not effectively choose the president directly. Setting a certain age for voting is no different.

Those who are 18 tend to be much more independent. Many are moving away from home for the first time out of high school and going to college. They won't be as easily influenced by their parents or anyone else for that matter. I do realize that there are many 18+ year olds who do vote with biased views, but I think you'll find that number will be significantly higher in the 16-17 year old category. Two years may not seem like much, there is a lot of maturing going on in those two years.


Again, the exact same thing happens regardless of what age they are.
Chris T
QUOTE(Wilko @ May 5 2005, 04:09 PM) *
Again, the exact same thing happens regardless of what age they are.
As a friend of mine put it "18 year olds are exactly the same and do exactly the same things as 16 year olds. Just for them its legal"
Wilko
QUOTE(CTerry @ May 5 2005, 04:16 PM) *
As a friend of mine put it "18 year olds are exactly the same and do exactly the same things as 16 year olds. Just for them its legal"


Your friend put it perfect.
Rikki
QUOTE(James302 @ May 5 2005, 12:04 AM) *
"Kerry looks weird" and many supported Kerry because "Bush is a war monger who kills little children."
Michael Howard has annoying hands.
Chris T
QUOTE(Rikki @ May 5 2005, 04:42 PM) *
Michael Howard has annoying hands.
I dunno what it is, but there's something about Michael Howard that creeps me out. Whenever he says 'Hello' he sounds like he's about to con you out of a large amount of money.
Rikki
QUOTE(CTerry @ May 5 2005, 04:45 PM) *
I dunno what it is, but there's something about Michael Howard that creeps me out. Whenever he says 'Hello' he sounds like he's about to con you out of a large amount of money.
Controoooooooooooooool.
Chris T
QUOTE(Rikki @ May 5 2005, 04:46 PM) *
Controoooooooooooooool.
If you're thinking what we're thinking vote Conservative on May the 5th, and make a stand!

He actually said that on TV, I cringed so hard. He managed to get two Conservative slogans into one sentence pinch.gif
Phil Mossop
QUOTE(Rikki @ May 5 2005, 04:42 PM) *
Michael Howard has annoying hands.


His hands/arms remind me of the puppets and Thunderbirds - that jerky kind of movement.
Chris T
QUOTE(Phil Mossop @ May 5 2005, 04:53 PM) *
His hands/arms remind me of the puppets and Thunderbirds - that jerky kind of movement.
Me and Rikki have a theory that he has some kind of invisible mystical ball, and that he's rubbing it. Everytime he rubs it he gets more people to vote Conservative. fear.gif
John
I voted on 5.05pm 05/05/05 biggrin.gif
Sam
His gestures and constant pausing annoy me. pinch.gif
Antony
QUOTE(Rikki @ May 4 2005, 12:19 PM) *
I can't see how it can possibly be a bad thing. 16/17 year olds pay taxes. They can smoke. They can have children. They can drive. They can do many of the things that adults do and they have many of the same responsibilities.

If they lowered it and 90% of them didn't use their vote, whats the problem? It's given the 10% that care the chance to place their vote. No-ones losing anything.

As for standing for office at 16 - there's more to disagree with on that.


Exactly!
Some 80 year olds are still not educated enough to use thier vote properly. Its what Democracy means - what the majority want. not what the educated and informed majority want, although that might be a better system.
Standing for office at 16? 18 would be more appropriate. I would expect all politicians to have A-Levels...
Chris T
QUOTE(Swords @ May 5 2005, 05:36 PM) *
Exactly!

Standing for office at 16? 18 would be more appropriate. I would expect all politicians to have A-Levels...
Actually there are several MPs without A Levels, though they've usually proven themselves in other ways first.
Antony
Ive Edited my post since you quoted it...
Rikki
I don't care what academic qualifications an MP has if they can do the job well.

My concern would be granting a 16 year old the ability to make decisions that affect that the population they represent. I think the 'legal' adult age of 18 makes more sense for that.
samuelt
QUOTE(Rikki @ May 5 2005, 05:41 PM) *
I don't care what academic qualifications an MP has if they can do the job well.

My concern would be granting a 16 year old the ability to make decisions that affect that the population they represent. I think the 'legal' adult age of 18 makes more sense for that.


Unless everything which defines being an adult as 16 (i.e. bus tickets, etc) stops, then 16s should be able to vote. As said before you get plenty of people now days that vote what their family have always voted, vote on looks, vote on one policy, regardless of age all generations do this. I think we need to stand up and stop being teachers, educators, students, office workers, etc and be people, and realise that we mature at different ages and that people will always be influenced, conned and immature no matrer what the age. I should remind you guys that the Monster Raving Looney Party, The Church of the Militant Elvis, the BNP and other joke political organisations were created by adults, hows that for mature? especially the non-16 years olds that vote for them....
Rikki
I've already said I think 16 year olds should vote...
Stephen
QUOTE(samuelt @ May 5 2005, 06:42 PM) *
Unless everything which defines being an adult as 16 (i.e. bus tickets, etc) stops, then 16s should be able to vote. As said before you get plenty of people now days that vote what their family have always voted, vote on looks, vote on one policy, regardless of age all generations do this. I think we need to stand up and stop being teachers, educators, students, office workers, etc and be people, and realise that we mature at different ages and that people will always be influenced, conned and immature no matrer what the age. I should remind you guys that the Monster Raving Looney Party, The Church of the Militant Elvis, the BNP and other joke political organisations were created by adults, hows that for mature? especially the non-16 years olds that vote for them....


The BNP isn't a joke party, yes they are a joke but they aren't a joke party.
Mark Wraith
The BNP is basically just a racist party.

Anyway, I see no reason to lower the voting age.
samuelt
QUOTE(Rikki @ May 5 2005, 06:49 PM) *
I've already said I think 16 year olds should vote...


lol sorry Rikki, i just didnt remove the quote, it wasnt actually aimed at you :">
and Stephen i suppose youre right, i just let the secret slip tho :charles:
Payton
If given the chance, at 16, I would definitely vote. I would research, and I would find out who and what to vote for. I care about important issues, and I would love to be able to vote on them. Just because someone is 2 years older doesn't mean they are any more intelligent or able to know/care what they are voting for. I think it's a good idea but I highly doubt it will ever happen, especially in the US.

And sure, there would be plenty of 16 year olds voting for the same thing their parents and peers are vote for, but what's to say 18, 19, 20 year olds aren't doing the same thing?original.gif
• Jay •
Bah, was going to put in my 2¢, but seen that it was a "UK thing" ... so I'll stay out of it due to the cultural differences. original.gif
DonWilson
No - Sixteen year olds are idiots.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2008 Invision Power Services, Inc.