Search Engine Friendly Urls would be great, I won't need to install any mods for that anymore.

Also I would like to see pips for new sub-folder posts, like in http://www.getpaidforum.net for example.

I'd add a +1 to your first request, the problem is that they have to support windows users as well and aparently they don't have mod_rewrite...

What if you could select platform before downloading? Or then installing? If you are not using windows in server it would not install friendly urls?

Edit: I think IPB 3.0 Should be revolution btw

+1

We should not have to install "mod" for something that 99% of admins want.

I agree on the URL's thing.

One more vote for better URLs.

Yeah same search freindly urls would be a nice feature.

If it means they have to make multiple sets of IPB, one with friendly URLs, and one without for Windows users, then I would say the odds of it happening are slim to none.

The images next to each subforum are useless and just clutter up the board index.

FuSoYa - with mod you need to change 2 files only, so I guess it won't be a big problem for IPB programmers to code something. They won't need to re-code whole board.

I'd think the URL rewriting could be done with a .htaccess file and a different default skin an optional. Also perhaps someone in the community could make a skin conversion tool to convert skins between the two types of URLs.



Agreed.

You gotta remember the links are mainly defined in the source files.

I say keep it as a MOD.

I think a better idea would be with IPB 3.0's hooks system, ensure that the ability to rewrite the URL from a hook function is possible. I.E. IPB gets data to make link, hook function registered - hand over control and let the hook make the URL. Problem solved. Install mod once, it persists installs.

Both Kim and myself have made FURL modifications that are very easy to install. I know from supporting the mod that about 40% of servers have problems with the FURL mods (which is why my one comes with a compatibility checker) it is near impossible to get a FURL mod that would work short of changing EVERY link thus making any old links to your board broken on upgrade, which is foolish. The URL system now is friendly enough, and it takes about 5 minutes to install a mod to make them moreso, you can even do it without file edits if you have the encoded version (it would take time going through the templates to correct the links, but it's possible).

For the second suggestion, -1. That would annoy me to no end.

I'm not sure I understand your logic here.

Wouldn't a mod wanted by almost every admin be something that SHOULD be worked into the base feature set? Do the majority of IPB admins NOT want their forums properly indexed by search engines?

I am a recent convert to IPB from Groupee (formerly UBB) using their hosted Eve forums. Prior to Groupee switching to search engine-friendly URLs my forums barely registered in the search engines beyond a few links from the forums' homepage. But shortly after Groupee converted to search engine-friendly URLs my forums shot to near the top of Google on several categories without ME changing a thing. Now, a few months after switching to IPB, I'm back to my forums being nearly-invisible again.

That being said, I am VERY happy that I made the switch to IPB due to MANY significant shortcomings in Groupee and its product development path (or lack thereof). My forums aren't particularly dependent on search engine traffic anyway.

But since I would IMAGINE that the GREAT MAJORITY of site admins WANT high search engine visibility for their websites AND simple website administration, working search engine-friendly URLs into the core IPB product seems like a good idea to me.

McQ: http://www.ipsbeyond.com/forums/index.php?...mp;showfile=515. Just install it. It is silly to implement something in the default structure that would completly destroy the system for certain users.

How?

If correctly implemented (as it was by Groupee), the new FURL links worked and the old links worked (part of the conversion process created the old URLs as aliases for their related new FURLs.).

What "structure" is jeopardy here?

More importantly, going forward shouldn't IPB be incorporating desired features into the base product? If so, is there a reason that MOST admins would not want their sites to be properly indexed by search engines? Is IPB marketing itself as the preferred option for sites that want to run in "stealth" mode on the Internet?

Mods can be wonderful things. But they aren't supported by IPB, so using them is inherently risky and can inject needless complexity into the site administration process.

But more to the point, FURLs would be a major advance for most board administrators and IPB, since FURLs significantly increase the search engine visibility of websites and IPB products.

To this day, Google has THOUSANDS more links to posts/threads from my old Groupee forums that had FURLs (no mod required), despite the fact that Groupee has been constantly accessing my IPB forums since May.

Admins should not have to mod a product to get the industry-standard search engine (Google) to properly index their sites.

I'm sorry about the above confusing typo on my part. What I MEANT to say was...


"To this day, Google has THOUSANDS more links to posts/threads from my old Groupee forums that had FURLs (no mod required), despite the fact that Google has been constantly accessing/spidering my IPB forums since May."


I guess I can't shouldn't do three Yeager Bombs before posting anymore.

There is always the edit option...

Anyway, the deal with friendly URLs is this: not all servers can use them, even if they can compatibility often varies, and not everyone wants to bother with them either. Hence, modification.

Incorrect.

Not all servers can handle the FURL mods.

But any web server can handle a FURL. In fact, it wouldn't be much of an Internet at all if Google and the other search engines could not easily index all the sites with FURLs.

A enhancement to IPB base(as opposed to a mod) would be a one-time conversion of all existing URLs to FURLs, as well as an aliasing of those existing URLS so that any old links (or links within forum postings, etc.)from other sites would still work. Obviously any new links would be created as FURLs only.

That would be the END of the process. No stand-alone, third-party mod to maintain or worry about. No headaches for the many IPB site admins who value simplicity in site administration.

I'm sure that there are many admins who like tweaks and mods. But if IPB surveyed their users, they would quickly learn that many MORE admins prefer simplicity, with the option to mod.

Since Internet search engine visibility is a powerful driver for GROWING a site and its related REVENUE, why would ANYBODY be resistant to moving FURLs to IPB's base product? Base should reflect core customer needs. Mods should address the variations from those core customer needs.


Also, just as an example, below are two Groupee threads (identical) discussing FURLs during the period when Groupee made their conversion to FURLs. Note that one is a FURL and one is an alias for the same thread:

Alias (not search engine friendly): http://community.groupee.com/eve/ubb.x?m=1...p;f=32010334563

FURL: http://community.groupee.com/eve/forums/a/...3/m/13410621763

Technically, this is true. All servers, when configured somehow, can probably be eventually encouraged into handling FURLs. But it varies so much, there is little point in IPS providing this as a default option. If the server is Apache, mod_rewite will probably be an installed module (in all likelihood), but you can't know for sure. So IPB would have to figure out whether it was installed, then either enable the rewrites, or disable it, telling the (possibly bemused, inexperienced) user that it's not possible to rewrite.

Compatibility and behaviour may vary across Apache versions.

IIS, on the other hand, varies a lot more. I think IIS has no rewrite capability by default, so a 3rd party module would have to be installed.

These are the problems. This is why FURLs aren't included in IPB as standard. This is why IPB admins are free, at their discretion and provided their system supports it, to download a mod.

You can't see the forest through all the trees.

Forget that any mod exists for FURLs, because they--and their limitations--have nothing to do with the feature request for FURLs.

This is a BASE CHANGE to IPB that would require a one-time conversion of existing URLS to FURLS. Any web server on the planet earth can handle FURLS. Nobody is asking Apache or IIS to rewrite anything.

This conversion would benefit almost EVERY IBP site SIGNIFICANTLY within one month in terms of search engine visibility. IPB could easily test this claim by mirroring THIS forum with an identical FURL-converted forum and then watching WHICH links rise to the top of the Google results.

If you can show me that IIS supports rewrites by default, and that rewrite implementations etc. don't vary across Apache versions, then I'll accept your point of view. But to the best of my knowlege, you are mistaken in assuming such wide compatibility.

The biggest problem with doing this is there are dozens of source files with redirects and custom links. Adding a mod_rewrite is easy, but the biggest issue is making all the links and redirects be used on the board as navigation (old links would still work since mod_rewrite translates them to the 'old' links anyway).

Doing something like this, the right way, would take a lot of effort. And even if it was included, it would be something optional. Right now, there are more important things to think about like improving existing features. If search engines couldn't read the boards at all, then it would be a more critical matter. But many search engines (Google, Yahoo, MSN, etc...) understand query string url's anyway. The real reason behind search friendly url's is (1) it looks nice, (2) it's easy to read. Right now I think you might be more interested in the operation/optimizations of the board rather than what the url looks like

Don't know one way or another about this one... We'll just have to wait and see what Matt & Brandon have up their sleeves .

SEO URLs +1

They can always be /index.php/test/ if mod_rewrite is not available.

Come to think of it, that was probably what McQ meant when he was going on about it. But again, as far as I can recall that requires another server-specific setting to be enabled. Plus virtually the entire of IPB would have to be altered so links were generated one way if FURLs were enabled, or another way if they weren't.

I still see this as a clear-cut modification option.

Apache on windows servers? No way.


What you don't understand is that URL rewriting is not available on all servers. You keep saying they are, but you are completely wrong.


You remind me of those people who keep arguing the same thing, using the same arguments, attacking the same arguments, with arguments that have already been proven false.

Let me break it down for you.

URLs are data--that's it. There is nothing magical about them.

Computer programs can systematically manipulate data.

Part of IPB's conversion to FURLs would be a program to systematically manipulate the URL data.

Get it?

No Apache required. No IIS required.

You guys keep talking about web servers and other stuff that has no bearing on a data conversion UNLESS the conversion is dependent on an existing mod.

EVERY current IPB board is using MySQL (or a commercial version of a SQL-based database). The conversion program (or SQL statements) might have to be tweaked for these variations, but that is about it.

DATA CONVERSION TIP: When you convert a large amount of data, do it via the database. Apache and IIS are not data conversion tools.

I'm done arguing in this thread. Hopefully somebody at IPB who understands the issue (and the technology) will do the test that I suggested in a prior post in this thread. Because the way companies stay ahead in a competitive business is by satisfying customer needs. So if most customers NEED FURLs, that need should not be met by an unsupported mod.

Now please excuse me while I get back to my job of converting tens-of-millions of rows (annually) of legacy data for the Philadelphia Police Dept.

McQ

fred.mcquiggan@phila.gov

The only way to achieve what you're suggesting is to parse the incoming vars using $_SERVER['PATH_INFO'] as opposed to with $_GET, $_POST etc. within IPB's normal parse_incoming() function in /sources/ipsclass.php, then replace within the wrapper all URLs in the format of <boardurl>index.php?stuff=stuff&stuff=stuff with <boardurl>index.php/stuff/stuff/stuff/stuff using some kind of regex. But again, I don't think PATH_INFO is always available. I could be wrong. If it is, then I guess your suggestion is actually workable after all. But numerous staff members have dismissed it, so I assume PATH_INFO can't be relied on.

Uhh. Whats the big deal about having it default? Make it an option...thats all. Make it so that you can turn it ON...or OFF. Either one. Simple as that. That would solve all this bickering (ofcourse that would take some work, but if they made friendly url's hardcoded, they would plumet. I woudlnt be able to use it...I turn on mod_rewrite, and nothing works. So it would be loss of a sale from me...).

With respect to exactly how this would be implemented, you appear to be missing the point. Of course IPB would be able to handle FURL's quite simply, and that would be manipulating data, and using the database as you describe. However, what is in question here is how you could create a friendly URL implementation that works across the major server software providers.

To create a URL such as mydomain.com/forums/My_Topic_Title_Here.html, you would need some sort of server software level rewriting, to allow your script to be called. Implementation of rewriting is massively different between the softwares and between the versions of each.

To create a URL such as mydomain.com/forums/index.php/My_Topic_Title_Here.html, your server software would need to provide PHP with the $_SERVER['PATH_INFO'] variable, to my knowledge, Apache is the only one that does this.

Of course, you could use URL's like mydomain.com/forums/index.php?My_Topic_Title_Here, or index.php?topic=My_Topic_Title_Here, but that's really not a lot more friendly than simply using query string URL's in the first place.

There really is no other way you could manipulate the URL used to access it via PHP alone. The server software in use does have a bearing on how this could work. Unless of course you're suggesting that all existing posts in the database be loaded, and cached to individual HTML files based on their topic title.

Of course, you don't have to take the word of me or any of the other web developers who posted here. Infact, I'd be beyond happy if you showed me up with a working, coded example of how to do this cross-platform, regardless of server software and configuration.

..snip..

I think you're confusing your want, with everyone.. I sure as hell don't care whether my links look like numbers or words.

+1

IPB doing this would really impress me and secure my loyalty forever. I don't know a single admin who doesn't want better SERPS; anything IPB can do to provide that, should be done. I'd happily forego development of another AJAX feature, if they were to do a bit of SEO on their software. I don't want to be reinstalling mods every time there's an update

you sure?

I am running xampp with php5 and mysql 4 and it does have mod_rewrite

I believe he's referring to users who run Internet Information Services, the Windows integrated webserver, along with users of other software that isn't Apache. Although Apache is the most popular http server, it certainly isn't the only one. There are a lot of users for IIS, Xitami, Lighttpd, and thttpd.

Heaven forbid people actually bothering to read the thread before posting a response.

Agreed. I find the numbering system just fine. Search engines don't need it either, I can see all 137,000 results for my forums on Google just fine.

Yes. Every blog engine has it as optional feature you can enable/ disable at anytime. FURL.. I don't think it is a good mod. You not able to see any friendly URL until you reach page 3 or 4. Vbulletin enabled that friendly URL feature year ago. All you need is mod_rewrite enabed. If you don't, you just use default URLs.

Give us some SEO URLS, IPB people! Please?

For reference, Internet Information Services does this also, at least in the 6 series and higher - assuming you don't mind editing the Metabase. And by that, I mean with a Metabase editor tool. It's not an option in IIS Admin Console.

they do have mod_rewrite but it has some funny way of understanding regex

SEO friendly URL's are just what I would love. A lot of money is spent by board owners buyin SEO mods, IPB would be a lot more appealing with SEO urls.

I think you should make a feature that the owner of the board can not be modified by other root administrators.

I've said it before, but if you can't trust someone to not mess with your account if you explicitly tell them not to, then they shouldn't be root admins.

Easiest way to do that.. add an additional parameter to the conf_global file like what vB does.. where you can add the user ID's of members (i.e. the owners) that cannot be edited/deleted from the ACP.

The way I rationalise it is.. the only people that need to be Root Admins, are the site owners/technical staff, who /need/ that extra level of access, the regular admin a/c is where I place all my admins into on every site I work on, I dont give anyone access they dont need.

Some of you guys don't understand what McQ says.
The webservers don't need to rewrite the URLs to FURLS if IPB 3.0 would convert the old number based links to FURLS already within the database. That's the easiest way and there are no compability issues.

Im a Admin who is dependent on search engine traffic, so if there will be no FURL / good SEO support in 3.0, i will convert to another boad.