Tonight Panorama is showing an episode called "Scientology and Me", as you can imagine Scientology being Scientology they really don't like this idea.
The reporter for the BBC lost his cool, and naturally Scientology has been spreading this around the Internet.
See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXeo9dKuYtM for the BBC report about it this morning. I must say though, I don't think what he did was as bad as some of the media made out, he never swore, he was never abusive all he did was shout louder than the spokesperson from Scientology to try and get a word in edgeways.
Scientology have made a mistake though, by kicking up a fuss and posting the video on YouTube (and moderating it, only allowing Pro-Scientology comments) they have made it well known. I didn't know anything about this, now I do and I am definitely going to watch it tonight, I am sure there are many other people who are in exactly the same situation.
Full Version: Scientology and Me
think i will too... that scientology bloke got quite viscous when his faith was questioned... most people who have their faith questioned are strong enough to defend it comfortably rather than verge on resorting to violent conduct.
Was it Jeremy Vine who lost his rag... please tell me it was?
(can't watch the video at the moment... internet is running slower than the M25)
(can't watch the video at the moment... internet is running slower than the M25)
QUOTE(Dªn @ May 14 2007, 11:13 AM) 
Was it Jeremy Vine who lost his rag... please tell me it was?
(can't watch the video at the moment... internet is running slower than the M25)
(can't watch the video at the moment... internet is running slower than the M25)
It was a reporter called John Sweeney. There's an article about this written by him on the BBC site.
These Scientologists are weird anyway! Just my personal opinion! I mean... look at Tom Cruise! It's sent him potty!
Wow, that interviewer from Panorama needs to be fired. Anyone that does such a bad job interviewing that he actually makes Scientology (of all things!) look legitimate and sane is a horrible reporter.
The second interview clip that was shown is a much more clear demonstration of how idiotic this reporter is. "Why?" you axe? Because he played the free speech card to try and justify his interviews. He does have the right to say and report whatever he wants, but these people also have the right to completely ignore him and walk away.
Anyways, my point is I'm sure the Church of Scientology has an APB out on this guy and everyone has been instructed not to talk to him. My view is out of context and limited to this youtube clip but it looks like he should have tried to be a bit more tactful. You don't go up to Michale Jackson and say, "Michael, how long have you been fondling little boys?" and expect him to not be offended and to answer the question.
On a side note, I find it hilarious that Scientologists think psychology is responsible for the Nazi party among other atrocities, when in fact it was a general intolerance of humanity that spawned most of those horrible incidents. Intolerance like Scientologists so clearly display every time I'm every exposed to one.
The second interview clip that was shown is a much more clear demonstration of how idiotic this reporter is. "Why?" you axe? Because he played the free speech card to try and justify his interviews. He does have the right to say and report whatever he wants, but these people also have the right to completely ignore him and walk away.
Anyways, my point is I'm sure the Church of Scientology has an APB out on this guy and everyone has been instructed not to talk to him. My view is out of context and limited to this youtube clip but it looks like he should have tried to be a bit more tactful. You don't go up to Michale Jackson and say, "Michael, how long have you been fondling little boys?" and expect him to not be offended and to answer the question.
On a side note, I find it hilarious that Scientologists think psychology is responsible for the Nazi party among other atrocities, when in fact it was a general intolerance of humanity that spawned most of those horrible incidents. Intolerance like Scientologists so clearly display every time I'm every exposed to one.
QUOTE(z0mgpwnr @ May 14 2007, 04:06 PM)
Wow, that interviewer from Panorama needs to be fired. Anyone that does such a bad job interviewing that he actually makes Scientology (of all things!) look legitimate and sane is a horrible reporter.
Based on a minute's worth of footage.
He is being suitably brought up on this issue... don't know why people love the "fire" word so much these days though.
QUOTE
The second interview clip that was shown is a much more clear demonstration of how idiotic this reporter is. "Why?" you axe? Because he played the free speech card to try and justify his interviews. He does have the right to say and report whatever he wants, but these people also have the right to completely ignore him and walk away.
He's not trying to justify his interview with freedom of speech he is justifying his usage of the word CULT to describe their "religion" with freedom of speech.
QUOTE
Anyways, my point is I'm sure the Church of Scientology has an APB out on this guy and everyone has been instructed not to talk to him. My view is out of context and limited to this youtube clip but it looks like he should have tried to be a bit more tactful. You don't go up to Michale Jackson and say, "Michael, how long have you been fondling little boys?" and expect him to not be offended and to answer the question.
LOL! You've obviously never seen Martin Bashir's documentary "Living with Michael Jackson".
I'll definitely be watching this tonight.
QUOTE
LOL! You've obviously never seen Martin Bashir's documentary "Living with Michael Jackson"
Nope, I haven't. I try to shy away from MJ related material.
QUOTE
He's not trying to justify his interview with freedom of speech he is justifying his usage of the word CULT to describe their "religion" with freedom of speech.
Right, but that's just my point...he has the right to have that opinion and express it...but that guy has the right to just walk away, like he did.
These mistakes are essential to the function of a reporter/interviewer. When you insult/alienate/condescend someone in an interview you aren't doing your job.
Alternatively, I believe this is the real point that Mr. Sweeny is trying to make, that these scientologists can't take any criticism or questioning of their religion and faith. Unfortunately, because of the hostility of his comments, people still have to determine whether it was because the scientologist can't take criticism or because the interviewer is being too rude. In either case, the man still failed miserable at his job and doesn't seem to have the ability to properly interview one of these nuts.
QUOTE(z0mgpwnr @ May 14 2007, 06:32 PM)
Nope, I haven't. I try to shy away from MJ related material.
Right, but that's just my point...he has the right to have that opinion and express it...but that guy has the right to just walk away, like he did.
These mistakes are essential to the function of a reporter/interviewer. When you insult/alienate/condescend someone in an interview you aren't doing your job.
Alternatively, I believe this is the real point that Mr. Sweeny is trying to make, that these scientologists can't take any criticism or questioning of their religion and faith. Unfortunately, because of the hostility of his comments, people still have to determine whether it was because the scientologist can't take criticism or because the interviewer is being too rude. In either case, the man still failed miserable at his job and doesn't seem to have the ability to properly interview one of these nuts.
Right, but that's just my point...he has the right to have that opinion and express it...but that guy has the right to just walk away, like he did.
These mistakes are essential to the function of a reporter/interviewer. When you insult/alienate/condescend someone in an interview you aren't doing your job.
Alternatively, I believe this is the real point that Mr. Sweeny is trying to make, that these scientologists can't take any criticism or questioning of their religion and faith. Unfortunately, because of the hostility of his comments, people still have to determine whether it was because the scientologist can't take criticism or because the interviewer is being too rude. In either case, the man still failed miserable at his job and doesn't seem to have the ability to properly interview one of these nuts.
You have to remember that the clips so far are from Scientology people. They're hardly going to tell the whole story. You're seeing a tiny portion of the programme, and out of context.
I have yet to hear one POSITIVE thing from Scientology.
I have a great deal of respect for John Sweeney - he used to be in the army and also has been in some dangerous situations.
I really cannot see how he messed up in that video. He was extremely stressed, being watched and followed, and did not have a violent attitude towards the Scientologist at all. As I mentioned, he was in the army, and whilst he raised his voice it was not of a violent manner. He had no need to apologise.
Any comments I make on this religion would be negative, and people have the right to believe what they want. So I shall respect that.
I really cannot see how he messed up in that video. He was extremely stressed, being watched and followed, and did not have a violent attitude towards the Scientologist at all. As I mentioned, he was in the army, and whilst he raised his voice it was not of a violent manner. He had no need to apologise.
Any comments I make on this religion would be negative, and people have the right to believe what they want. So I shall respect that.
Thank god (pun intended) that Scientology has been refused classification as a religion in the UK.
All I can say to the man who heads scientology and said to John Sweeney .... 'You mention that word once more, then I will not be responsible for my actions'
CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT.
Come and get me, if you think your hard enough.
PS. CULT
PPS. CULT
PPPS. CULT
CULT CULT CULT.
and just in case you missed it
CULT
CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT.
Come and get me, if you think your hard enough.
PS. CULT
PPS. CULT
PPPS. CULT
CULT CULT CULT.
and just in case you missed it
CULT
Well that was interesting, certainly seems to validate the claims that they don't like to let critics speak.
I think it is good also that the BBC showed "the outburst" rather than try to pretend it didn't happen.
@Matt - I think you're missing the point, no one minds them believing what they believe that is their choice, but it is what they do to their critics, to former members, to non-believers etc that get them the negative image. Disconnects (such as 5 children of a dying old man refusing to speak to him, or a married couple of 22 years divorcing because the wife left the religion), Fair Game, Bankruptcy, things like Operation Snow White and Operation Freakout. I won't post it here, but google "Lisa McPherson" (warning, there are some disturbing images) and Elli Perkins.
I think it is good also that the BBC showed "the outburst" rather than try to pretend it didn't happen.
@Matt - I think you're missing the point, no one minds them believing what they believe that is their choice, but it is what they do to their critics, to former members, to non-believers etc that get them the negative image. Disconnects (such as 5 children of a dying old man refusing to speak to him, or a married couple of 22 years divorcing because the wife left the religion), Fair Game, Bankruptcy, things like Operation Snow White and Operation Freakout. I won't post it here, but google "Lisa McPherson" (warning, there are some disturbing images) and Elli Perkins.
QUOTE(Rikki @ May 14 2007, 04:46 PM)
Thank god (pun intended) that Scientology has been refused classification as a religion in the UK.
The only difference between scientology and other religions is the guy that came up with the story was around in our lifetime. Hubbard was a science fiction writer, but is the bible any different than a decent sci-fi story?
That's one thing that always kills me about these religion related debates, all other religions except your own are a joke. (not just directed towards you Rikki, you just happened to be the post I quoted when I replied)
No the reason Scientology isn't classified as a religion in the UK is because of the involvement of the large sums of money, therefore it doesn't get the charity status of "recognised" religions. You are free to practise and believe what you want (within reason of course, i.e. no murdering etc ) but to be offically recognised as a religion by the government and get the benefits there are rules.
As for whether or not Scientology is more legit than any other religion, I think people know my views on that so I won't get into it.
) but to be offically recognised as a religion by the government and get the benefits there are rules.As for whether or not Scientology is more legit than any other religion, I think people know my views on that so I won't get into it.
QUOTE(MetalFrog @ May 14 2007, 11:40 PM)
The only difference between scientology and other religions is the guy that came up with the story was around in our lifetime. Hubbard was a science fiction writer, but is the bible any different than a decent sci-fi story?
That's one thing that always kills me about these religion related debates, all other religions except your own are a joke. (not just directed towards you Rikki, you just happened to be the post I quoted when I replied)
That's one thing that always kills me about these religion related debates, all other religions except your own are a joke. (not just directed towards you Rikki, you just happened to be the post I quoted when I replied)
I was discussing this with Stephen earlier actually. I don't wish to offend anyone, but it's not hard to see how other religions now have the influence they do when you look at Scientology. It's the same thing, just taking place in the modern day. The big difference, of course, is these days we have media and communication which enables alternative views to be shared (and killing will get you into trouble these days, whereas it wasn't much of a problem to 'get rid of' a dissenter in the past).
I'm certainly not comparing modern day Christianity (to pick on one in particular, though it applies to all IMO) to Scientology, but I don't believe there's much difference from each other in the way they were born initially. Vulnerable people finding something they believe helps them (and it may well do), but ultimately being used by 'higher' levels of the organisation for their own benefit.
QUOTE(Rikki @ May 14 2007, 06:49 PM)
I was discussing this with Stephen earlier actually. I don't wish to offend anyone, but it's not hard to see how other religions now have the influence they do when you look at Scientology. It's the same thing, just taking place in the modern day. The big difference, of course, is these days we have media and communication which enables alternative views to be shared (and killing will get you into trouble these days, whereas it wasn't much of a problem to 'get rid of' a dissenter in the past).
I'm certainly not comparing modern day Christianity (to pick on one in particular, though it applies to all IMO) to Scientology, but I don't believe there's much difference from each other in the way they were born initially. Vulnerable people finding something they believe helps them (and it may well do), but ultimately being used by 'higher' levels of the organisation for their own benefit.
I'm certainly not comparing modern day Christianity (to pick on one in particular, though it applies to all IMO) to Scientology, but I don't believe there's much difference from each other in the way they were born initially. Vulnerable people finding something they believe helps them (and it may well do), but ultimately being used by 'higher' levels of the organisation for their own benefit.
I agree. I feel that most religions started as a way to organize the masses (not sure if it was always for ulterior motives), and protect them from things that would harm them. They all teach about morality in some aspect, but human nature kicks in and greed along with power currupted, leading to wars and all the other stuff we all know happened.
"I’d like to start a religion. That’s where the money is."
- L. Ron Hubbard, founder of the Church of Scientology
- L. Ron Hubbard, founder of the Church of Scientology
Scientology has now set up websites attacking the BBC:
http://www.freedommag.org/bbc/mag/index.html?firstPage=3
http://www.bbcpanorama-exposed.org/introdu...ama-exposed.php
http://www.freedommag.org/bbc/mag/index.html?firstPage=3
http://www.bbcpanorama-exposed.org/introdu...ama-exposed.php
Scientology has nothing to fear but Scientology its self.
& how it all relates.
In case you missed it, it's now up for download on the BBC website: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/programmes/panorama/default.stm
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