Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Christopher Hitchens gets waterboard treatment
Invision Power Services > Community Forums > Community General Chat
Stephen
QUOTE
Believe Me, It’s Torture

What more can be added to the debate over U.S. interrogation methods, and whether waterboarding is torture? Try firsthand experience. The author undergoes the controversial drowning technique, at the hands of men who once trained American soldiers to resist—not inflict—it.

by CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS August 2008

Here is the most chilling way I can find of stating the matter. Until recently, “waterboarding” was something that Americans did to other Americans. It was inflicted, and endured, by those members of the Special Forces who underwent the advanced form of training known as sere (Survival, Evasion, Resistance, Escape). In these harsh exercises, brave men and women were introduced to the sorts of barbarism that they might expect to meet at the hands of a lawless foe who disregarded the Geneva Conventions. But it was something that Americans were being trained to resist, not to inflict.
Exploring this narrow but deep distinction, on a gorgeous day last May I found myself deep in the hill country of western North Carolina, preparing to be surprised by a team of extremely hardened veterans who had confronted their country’s enemies in highly arduous terrain all over the world. They knew about everything from unarmed combat to enhanced interrogation and, in exchange for anonymity, were going to show me as nearly as possible what real waterboarding might be like.

It goes without saying that I knew I could stop the process at any time, and that when it was all over I would be released into happy daylight rather than returned to a darkened cell. But it’s been well said that cowards die many times before their deaths, and it was difficult for me to completely forget the clause in the contract of indemnification that I had signed. This document (written by one who knew) stated revealingly:
“Water boarding” is a potentially dangerous activity in which the participant can receive serious and permanent (physical, emotional and psychological) injuries and even death, including injuries and death due to the respiratory and neurological systems of the body.
As the agreement went on to say, there would be safeguards provided “during the ‘water boarding’ process, however, these measures may fail and even if they work properly they may not prevent Hitchens from experiencing serious injury or death.”

Read the rest...

Here is the video of him being waterboarded, but be warned some people may find it disturbing (I don't think it is, just a warning) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LPubUCJv58

I have to admit, I disagree with Hitchen's stance on Iraq but that took some guts to do.
idav
Hitchens is quite a character. While I also disagree with some of his politics he's someone I can certainly respect to agree to disagree with.

Waterboarding should go down in history as the hypocrisy that proved we are losing the war on terrorism. We've signed treaties swearing not to do it, we've chastised nations for doing it, but none of that matters, it seems some people think we have to become terrorists to fight terrorists. I think that's declaring a loss.
Chris T
Hitchens is an odd little man, with an odd little mix of views (it is rare one finds a supporter of George W Bush who idolises Trotsky) but he is obviously intelligent and willing to back up his views and have them challenged.
idav
I thought this was a surprisingly coherent comment on digg by someone ironically called whitecracker laughing.gif

QUOTE
Torture is the "anguish of body or mind." As Hitchens says, "if this isn't torture, what is"? It needn't cause physical injury or be actually deadly to be torture. The clear mental anguish effectuated by this practice SHOWS why waterboarding fits that bill. And, please, don't respond by saying "but it's effective!" No one ever said Torture wasn't effective, they said it was immoral. If torture wasn't effective, YOU WOULDN'T NEED THE GENEVA CONVENTION.

The irony is the fundy right-wing "Christians" are the first to abandon their principles and advocate torture. Well open your Bible, thumpers, and turn to the parable of Paul. Paul was a good man and acolyte of Jesus yet, when things got bad, what did he do? Abandoned Jesus (his principles and beliefs) because he feared pain (the fate of Jesus). Jesus forgave him of course but the point is principles are tough to abide by; particularly tough when times are hard. Nevertheless the whole of morality is premised on how you act when things are hard. To be Christlike means one thing and one thing only: you put your morals first. Before expediency. Before revenge. Before fear. As FDR said -- prophetically -- "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself." Exactly.

That's the worst part about this backassed "war on terror" Bush has waged. Terror is, by definition, toothless. A terrorist's only power is just that: his ability to inflict terror. And once people are terrified, they run around and do stupid faeces like violate the Geneva Convention and enter into pointless wars that bankrupt the Country. Terrorists are only as powerful as your fear permits them to be. If you aren't scared, they have no power. If they had a gun or a nuke or could actually harm our Country you wouldn't call them terrorists, you'd call them an ARMY. Sure the terrorists can inflict a 9/11 every once in a while but they don't have the firepower to actually harm America. So they turn to their REAL "weapon of mass destruction" -- FEAR.

What they are counting on is that chickenfaecess like BlueStater -- THEY'RE TRYING TO KILL US!!! -- are dumb enough to think we can kill our way to security. No amount of torture or fear of reprisal can scare a man (or woman) willing to strap dynamite to his chest and ignite if off in a crowded plaza. And if your goal is to fight everyone who wants to kill us then you better strap on the flak jacket son because we got about half a planet to kill. As Jesus said, "those who live by the sword die by the sword."

Are you calling Jesus a liar?

In short, what makes America unique is not it's ability to wage war, it's its ability to put their ideals and principles first. There've been a million other States and Countries and City-States in history; America is different for the principles outlined in the Constitution and Bill of Rights: Freedom. Openness. Inclusion. Democracy. Morality. Respect. Laws. We abandon those principles and American ceases to be America.

Like Maximus said in Gladiator "Rome is only a dream." So is America. And I'm sick of timid ######s like "BlueStater" and YellowBellyBush who are intent on turning that dream into a nightmare.

###### em.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2008 Invision Power Services, Inc.