Not sure if anyone just watched the previous two heats, but it was pretty tense. America will be extremely disappointed, they couldn't get their men or women teams to qualify. GB Men's disqualified on the last change over. Was pretty close call though.

Anyway, what did you think?

I've been watching it - I know what you mean! Wondering how the British red haired guy is going to do now.

Well this is the start of China beating the USA in the Olympics, seeing as China has been leading from the start.

Shame he couldn't make gold, most of us were expecting him to take gold, but still, another medal

Notice how none of them managed to do a decent last jump

China will almost certainly have the most gold medals by the time the games end, and they may catch the US in total medals, but it's not really accurate to say they are 'beating' the USA; they don't call the country who ends up with the most medals/gold medals the 'winner' of the Olympics or anything like that.

The Olympics has always been recorded on gold medals first, and that's how most countries judge it. It is quite amusing how the US media has changed to using total medals instead of golds, I will admit.

I find it most interesting how this is just being pointed out now that China has the most gold medals. I have been following the olympics since the 88 games in Seoul, and we have always displayed the medal tracker by total medals; we haven't changed at all.

It doesn't really matter who has the most gold medals A lot of the time, its the very large countries that do (Such as China and US), which is why I am very surprised that we are 3rd, seeing we are a lot smaller than others.

Well it would be slightly worrying if the US media blatantly lied to the public and said that China does not have the most gold medals.

I just found it odd how most countries rank their performance by gold medals and the US does not.

I'm wondering if the US are going to be pumping a lot more funding into athletics and sport in light of this, I hope they do (I'd love to see a tight competition in one of the next Olympic games).

Oh, and USA Today changed the way they record medals from Golds to Total this year. I know it doesn't really matter, I'm just pointing it out.

I doubt the US Olympic Committee is overly worried about this result. Yeah, it's sort of an ego boost to be up there in total medal count, but I don't think the results we're seeing in these games (between the US and China) are really unexpected. The host country alsmost always does better in their games than they typically do, and China has already been steadily improving their total medal counts in previous games. I saw a chart of this somewhere, but with so many Olympic discussions going on right now I can't find it again.

I'd say the medal counts are just indicative of an improved and inspired China team and a still very good US team.

Michael Johnson doesn't think much about your US athletics team and the way the coaching structure is organised. Your terrible performance today suggests he is probably right.

I'm also quite glad you're being beat by China, by your posts it sounds like you need bringing down a peg or two.

p.s would you like Gary Glitter?

Though to be fair it was soaking wet, loads of teams didn't finish. Including us.

We didn't drop the baton twice though!

The points Michael Johnson had about the USA team were pretty fair, and I think he was pretty shocked at the appalling performance. This is a team that should have qualified easily. It was a heat that they should have taken easily, and they didn't need to make the mistakes they made. They were all experienced athletes and shouldn't have dropped the baton. Craig Pickering on the other hand was at his first olympics, and set off too early - a mistake he shouldn't have made and one he will surely regret, but it's all part of his learning curve.

I was gutted when we didn't make it through, but at least our female team did us proud.

Michael Johnson criticizes the US team, which means I have been a terrible person and should be ashamed of my attitude. Yes, terrific logic.

*Adds to Ignore List*

Exactly what I told some guy form Australia when he kept saying I was wrong that the U.S. was "ahead in medal count". He said the U.S. is not "winning" because the IOC considers the one with the most golds as the winner.

Then I went through well if the silvers and bronzes don't mean anything, they might as well only give out the gold.

Then he says they do matter. Well obviously they don't if some country is magically the "winner" based solely on golds rather than a formula.

So by the IOC standard a country winning 5 golds, 0 silvers, and 0 bronze did BETTER than a country with 4 golds, 100 silvers, and 59 bronze. That's stupid.

So then I just said the same thing you did, that nobody goes around syaing "our country won the olympics" anyway. It's just the same as usual, everyone likes seeing someone "beat" the U.S. because they don't like the country. Also why you see the Chinese being overscored in everything and the U.S. underscored (especailly gymnastics). They say well Chinese aren't judges. Yeah but the fact remains these other countries hate the U.S. and they knew China was the only country who could take golds in olympics with their underage girls.

(by the way not only are there suspicions of this year's team from China using illegal underage players, but a chinese gymnast form the 2004 games ADMITTED she was only 14. So that may not directly affect this Olympics, but it shows China will indeed lie.

lol oh please. The U.S. is always up there near the top. the U.S. easily won gold count in the 1996 Olympics and you're acting like we never are up there and "can;t give a good competition" with the other countries. Just so happens THIS year China has done better at golds, partly due to greater population, partly due to its government (deceptiveness).

China definitely has great athletes though. But the results are skewed and I firmly believe the U.S. is going to get some of the Chinese golds given to them later on. The IOC is known for taking away medals and giving them to different countries when they find wrongdoing and it will not be hard to prove at some point that China used underage gymnasts, so that right there is not enough to put the U.S. ahead, but it would give them... at least a few mroe medals.

I'm sure someone has me on their ignore list, but I would guess that guy is on more than me..............

I really hope all Americans arn't as ignorant and elitist as you.

"The US isn't winning, China must be cheating!"

"China's government is faking the Olympic results!"

Bulls**t

...and so the entire spirit of the Olympics was lost. The end.

@Matt: No just most of us.

hahaha ok are you going to still say that when I am proven right? Are you going to post again about it?

I am not being elitist at all. I don't care who wins, China flat CHEATED in gymnastics. If you don't agree, either you didn't watch it or you don't understand it. You would have to not know the difference between what a 16 year oild and a 12 year old looks like to think China did not use underage athletes. EVERYONE knows it. EVEN IN A CHINESE NEWSPAPER it was said last year that a girl was 13 and then this year she magically became 3 years older. lol Thenn the Chinese government claims it was a typo. All of this AFTER it was already suspected by looking at them that they were not even CLOSE to 16.

If you think I am being elistist and looking for reasons why they won, then bet me money on whether those girls are really 16 or above.

As far as the scoring, all of the U.S. commentators (who are fair in their statements, they admit when other countries deserve gold) were absolutely FLOORED when they saw how horrible the judging was in favor of China in gymnastics.

In fact on one routine they even showed in the rule book that this girl FALLING DOWN was supposed tot ake x points away and yet they were not even taken away. It was not even a judgment call, they flat ignored the rule book and it cost an American a medal.

Guess this is another topic for me to stop commenting on. I cant say an opinion or someone gets mad and reads into it. I am not looking for reasons why we are losing. The U.S. may very well be behind even with the cheating taken out, but yes China cheated as far as gymnastics and VERY well respected people said so also.

It;s clear from some people in here, they just don't like the U.S. and are paranoid that the U.S. citizens are "bragging" about thigns or demanding to be leading.

Basher perhaps it would do your character a service to back up your statements like you just did instead of just blurting them out like you did previously. We aren't all privileged with the same information that you are. The logic of your first post essentially was as Matt improvised.

Regretting making this topic now

EDIT: Its always my topics isn't it,

To be fair China is only winning the medal count because they're at home. Home advantage is a pretty clear cut sporting phenomenon.

Other things I would like to note:

-There is a winner, it is handed out at the end of each competition, and the IOC does it on golds first.
-I agree that this is flawed, I think a points based system would be better myself, but that is the system the IOC uses, and I am sure you lot weren't complaining about it before. In any case doing it on total medals is equally dumb. A bronze is certainly not worth the same as a gold!
- Matt, stop being a wanker to the yanks

One example (and this is brand new, I ahdn't seen this one yet, proof)

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/oly...icle4578241.ece

edit:
http://www.clubhousecancer.com/2008/08/bela-karolyi-is.html

Bela is EXTREMELY well-respected.

Also while searching I just noticed now there are accusations that Chinese swimmers were avoidign failed drug tests somehow. I didn;t read it.

We could do with a bronze

Just so I'm clear, you're talking about each individual competition, not as an overall "Congratulations, you win the Olympics" award to the country with the most medals, right? And I agree, a points based system would be best.

In other Olympics news, our women's softball team got shocked in the gold medal game by Japan, but our women's soccer team took the gold again there.

I knew the IOC counted it golds first (after this guy told me this year and it shocked me because yes golds are more important, but there is rarely going to be a tie, so it's like the IOC is saying silver means nothing), but I didn't know they hand anything out to the country they consider the winner.

There's an award for winning the medal table. I don't think they refer to it as 'winning' the Olympics though. It doesn't get much publicity though.

I think he's saying the whole Olympics, but I don't recall ever seeing it happen. If it did I would think Americans would remember it from 1996.

Yeah, must not get much publicity, in 20 years of following the Olympics I've never heard of it. Wikipedia appears to be mute on the subject as well. Do you have a source for this? I'd just like to know for sure that this exists, since I stated above that it doesn't.

I might be wrong. Someone I know told me there was one, and as he's a mega sporting buff I took it on trust. Now I look around I can't seem to find any reference to it either.

Someone showed me a link that shows the IOC does rank countries with gold first a few days ago, so that much is true, but I still think nobody goes around sayig "we were the olympic champions! we had more golds". Meanwhile I DO see people saying "my country won the most medals".

Btw, Channel 4 has a series of 'alternative' olympic tables, done by things like GDP, population and human rights, they can provide interesting and amusing reading: http://c4news.com/livepages/olympics2008/c...icsResults.html

I was referring to your general comment that they were cheating in basically everything because it's hosted in China. Please do not stretch what I say! Some of their gymnastics team probably are under 16, yet its impossible to prove. However, this is mostly limited to gymnastics...



You do realise that the judges come from all corners of the globe, from many different countries? There would have been no favouritism for China or against US.


Actually, I'm pretty much pro-US. So there goes that comment...

Improvised? If you're capable of reading, I stated USA Today changed their medal table from 2004 to 2008. If you want to look up the source, it can be found on both the USA Today website and The Guardians website (British newspaper).

I already explained that the judges don't have to be from China becuase so many countries hate the U.S.

Also no it is not impossible to prove the Chinese are underage. They will find proof, as apparently that hacker already did.

edit: by the way as far as judging goes, it may not all be cheating, it may just be stupid judges, but regardless they flat out were wrong on their scoring in gymnastics in particular). But yes underage athletes is called cheating,just not by judges.

That's a really good argument... "so many countries hate the U.S.". I think most judges are well respected people in their specific sports and would have the professionalism to look past nationality. I also think that many judges will not agree with the Chinese human rights record, though would look past that and to the individual athlete.

The problem with proving an athletes age in China is that it would be very easy for their government to issue them a new birth certificate, passport, etc.

Its not really that the judges are biased against the US, but rather that the competition is taking place in China, and the positive atmosphere and crowd acclaim is bound to rub off on the judges. If the crowd goes wild it'll have an effect, simple as that. That's a phenomenon as old as sport itself though, and its benefitted the US at past Olympics, it'll benefit Britain in 2012, its just a part of sport. The only way to avoid it would be to hold Olympic competitions on the moon.

Think of the records that will be broken!

I do not disagree with that, though I do believe it has not got a huge effect on the outcome (the 'favoured athletes' are going to have to be pretty comparable to those less favoured). Anyway, not all sports have judges at least!




It would be fun to watch - especially the triple jump and high jump!

No, but there is still always an advantage at home. The positive reinforcement of being in your own country always forces sportsmen and women to perform better. Look at the records of host countries in world cups for instance. Hell, only time we've won the world cup was the time we were hosting it.

There is an advantage for the host country always. That's a given. Whether it be in the U.S. or wherever. But I am mainly tlaking about the gymnastics cheating and yes it's hard to believe that a country that is already lying about that is doing all other sports fairly bu tjust decide to cheat in only one sport.

And I judge the anti-U.S. sentiment by the fact that I see on many forums people from other countries almost having heart attacks of joy when they see the U.,S. not wina gold in something and them quickly celebrating that the U.S. is "not at the top". It's pretty obvious. I don't pull this out of thin air, I just am not dumb enough to not see what's going on.

And fyi these people who are happy about it are NOT from the countries who are in first yet they brag that the U.S. is not ahead. Just looks idiotic when someone from a country behind the US. brags that the U.S. is not in first place. lol

Oh and by the way, so much for the U.S. being caught in total medals. When I checked this morning the U.S. was up by 2 and the last time I checked the U.S. was up by 12. So I think the U.S. has come close to wrapping up the total medal win and China the total gold.

I am quite happy the US isn't winning myself. Not because I hate the US, but rather because you ALWAYS come top of the medal table, and its rather nice to see someone else topping it for once. I don't think wanting some variety in my sport means I am some kind of raving anti-American.

No always, the Soviets were dominant there for quite some time.

Always in my memory. I'm 23, the Soviet Union ceased to exist when I was 6.

I wasn't being literate in any case!

By that same token, why not look at the US' track record in Track & Field. For the 2000 Olympics, it was found that Marion Jones was taking Steroids, perhaps the rest of the US team HAD to be cheating? It's ridiculous to assume that every team is connected as such and that every team is cheating just because China has far more medals than the US.

P.S. It's funny if people celebrate that the US isn't at the top, when it should be China due to the fact that they hold 20 more Gold medals than the US.

That's what I'm saying, Chinese people should be the ones bragging if anyone has a right to. (although like I said, time will tell how many medals were legit form them. I am guessing enough arelegit to deserve them being at the top, but many are still not legit in my opinion)

I didn't say the U.S. hasn't cheated in the past. They may have cheated THIS time too for all I know. But at the moment it's close to fact China has in gymnastics. Someone told me they even saw an article where one of the chinese gymnasts was smiling in a pic and she had a tooth missing! I mean come on! Add that to her not being developed at all and I wonderrrrrr if she is really 16+. Hmm.

I'm not sure you've met any geniune Chinese people, especially females. The majority of females in China would appear 'underdeveloped' to the western eye, they're generally small in height and small in other areas, just because a woman has small breasts, that are made even smaller by the tight lycra suits they wear doesn't mean she's underage.

It is bizaare that she had a tooth missing though, I've never known anybody lose a tooth who wasn't under the age of 16. She must be underage. Damn the cheating Chinese.

I know. Someone else mentioned Chinese women are shorter and may develop slower sometimes, but I am just going by what Bela said and he has been around gymnastics for many years so I trust his opinion when he says he knows they are underage.

And as far as your last comment, guess we should just forget the fact that she was accused of being underage THEN there is a pic of her with a missing tooth, right? It's not like someone saw a pic of her missing a tooth and THEN said she is underage. It's just added evicende. So don't twist it to make it seem like that is the original evidence.